Down Referees

[Morris]

I know we don't get down referees for our matches in MCPS, but I was wondering what it would be to pay (small amount -- maybe $10 a match???) for some qualified (what does that mean?) boys team players to assist as down referees. Chris and I talked briefly (REALLY briefly) in passing and I said I would throw it out to the others. This year is a wash but maybe it could be something to bring up at our post season meeting.

[whmusser]

I'm more troubled over the level of play that is tolerated by the 1st referees. The leniency given to setters with double contacts and players lifting the ball out of the net can be significant equalizers when a match is called below the level of play of the better skilled team.

[ronhvb03]

I agree I've been watching HS ball for several years and the 1st refs let way to much go, particularly in reference to the setters. I would like the believe a 2nd referee would make a difference but I really don't it will. Although it would help with other types of violations such a net calls.

[Scott Zanni]

As many of you know MCPS has a policy of only using one official/match. I'm not sure, but I believe we may be the only county in the state to do so. Certainly we are one of the few.

That said, I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't have anyone other than officials calling the game at the net. Students are just fine for calling lines, but most kids have no idea how to call a game at the net, nor have they been trained to do so.

The other problem involved with this issue that is often overlooked is that the officials group that serves MCPS simply doesn't have enough officials to provide an up and down ref for each high school match. The officials have been pushing for two officials to be used, but they simply aren't in a position to provide that service either (at this point in time).

Personally, I'd love to see two officials, but right now I don't see it happening in MCPS (sadly).

[Ref]

Being a referee in this region, I do agree that R2s are needed. PG county just went to required R2s this season. BUT also being a referee, I know how difficult it is to staff games as it is - MoCo has more games then it does refs for those games. 3, 2 & even 1 day before play date matches have no referee assigned. There just isn't enough referees to make R2s even a remote possibility. We're lucky to get an R1 at every match...

The other issue of R1s making bad hands calls is simply that quite a few of the region referees do not have volleyball experience. They are basketball referees learning the rules of volleyball to ref during the fall season - they have no playing or coaching experience in the sport. So a call like hands is just not an easy call for them to make b/c they do not see the little errors visible to those who have been involved in the sport longer. I am not saying this is ok - I'm a big watcher of double contacts & lifts myself - but I do understand why this is happening.

I hope this gives you a different point of view from a Refs perspective.

[marym]

thanks to the ref for he input. i actually think that many times the refs do an ok job of calling the actual setters' hands (ok, a little on the loose side:) ) but i really have more of a problem with refs that watch the setter like a hawk and then let any old crap go on the third hit - throws, doubles, whatever. the third hit isn't like the first hit and it's totally unfair to require the setter to have "clean" hands and then let everyone else do whatever they want.

i will say that in general i prefer the more loosely called game just because it's more fun and keeps the action going. i know that's like heresy in the volleyball world, but oh well, some volleyball people need to relax a bit, yes? however, i must agree that a looser called game does create an unfair advantage for a team with a bad setter since they get away with things that should technically be whistled and the good setter probably isn't getting away with much of anything since they're doing it right to begin with.

finally, though, if you can't live with bad hands calls (or no calls) you can't play volleyball - happens every match with every ref and it always seems worse than it is in the heat of the battle (if you watch game film, you see that what you thought was so horrible, really may have been not as bad as you thought). plus, parents always feel that the other team is "getting away with" bad setting and their, shall we say, "vocal" nature tends to make people get upset about the officiating when overall the ref may be doing an ok job. (remember, officiating consists of a lot more than judging the setters' hands and we're talking about dealing with a whole gym full of teenagers here.)

[Ref]

I agree with some refs being too picky. You really have to decide how tight you want to call the game before it starts - view the setters & see what level BOTH teams are playing at. If one team is absolutely perfect on their hands, and the other is horrible, it makes it tough - you just have to use your best discretion. We like to go by the motto "Let the Girls Play." And I agree with you MaryM - if you're going to call hands tight, then yes, you should also be paying just as much attention to the 3rd contact.

To respond to ronhvb03, a down ref would have no impact on the hands calls - as an R2 you are not even allowed to make that call. All you can do as an R2 is give your opinion to the R1 by making the hand gesture of the call on your upper abdomen - they have to actually blow the whistle & make the call. So if they see your opinion, it is still up to them whether to call it or not.

[whmusser]

Being a referee in any sport is a hard job and it's hard to make everyone(players/coaches/fans) happy. Without them the matches would just be pick-up, so Thanks!

I must say, however (isn't there's always a but?), I don't recall a match I thought was called too tightly. I agree that the teams should be allowed to play, but not to the advantage of the less skilled team. It's not the referrees job to make the matches competitive or fun for the fans. When there is a great disparity in skill I would grant that the ref should use discretion in making ball handling calls. Although calling the matches tightly may, in the short term, be frustrating to players and fans, I think in the long run it will elevate the level of play.

[twinkie]

It would be nice if teams were supplied a single competent referee.

It seems that over the years, officiating has been in a downward spiral. In my day we had bad referees, but they made the same bad calls consistently. Today, what you did two points ago will now be called the nest time you do it, but not the time after that.

I saw a match recently where a referee give a "touch" explanation of "because I heard it."

Good luck with getting down refs. I know that people have been pushing for them for at least 20 years in MoCo.

[Bill Morris]

To be honest, I think we would see greater consistency if we had down referees. I would not want to referee now with all the things they have to keep track of in the course of one point. I have been pretty satisfied with how the matches have been called considering all they have to keep track of. I do think we can get down referees we just have to keep bringing it up.

As I stated way back in the beginning, just having a "trained" member of the boys volleyball team keep track of subbing and the net would help the up referee greatly. Paying them a nominal amount ($10???) would help. Not all schools would have them (maybe they couldn't find someone either willing or knowledgeable enough) but it would help whenever they could be found. They could even go to training during preseason and work during scrimmages.

Just trying to find a way...

[Scott Zanni]

MCPS has decided for this year to provide a down ref (2nd official) for all girls varsity and JV contests. The official group is not 100% certain they will have enough officials to provide two officials at each match, but MCPS is moving in this direction.

The decision was first discussed last spring between MCPS and the officials. A few varsity coaches were asked their opinion (all supported the change). The decision was finalized this summer and the varsity coaches were told on friday at the MCPS coaches meeting.

In my opinion this is a needed change for the county and a step in the right direction.